Here is a debate I had with annihilationists. People who don't believe in Hell. They are responding to a Youtube video I posted defending the doctrine of Hell. Names have been replaced by numbers.
Hell is not a doctrine which we have liberty to play around with.Mark 16:16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
111Hell is a made up lie.
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- Matt SIngleton matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: - Matt SIngleton luke 16:23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,
that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I
am tormented in this flame. 25 But
Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy
good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted,
and thou art tormented. 26 And
beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so
that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they
pass to us, that would come from thence. - Matt SIngletonMark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And
if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched: 46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And
if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter
into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast
into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
- Matt SIngleton Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 ...See More - Matt SIngleton Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome
when thou art judged. - Matt SIngleton While I don't think those things are impossible. Parables don't name people. stop perverting hermeneutics.
- Matt SIngletonEvery word of the bible is true. "You can't admit that but at the same time you can't can't answer why it is
you don't cut your hands off or pluck your own eyes out." I am doing two things. 1. I proved that the rich man and lazurus was not parable. You fail to rebuke me. 2. you showed flawed logic trying to rebuke my interpretation of luke, when you throw me a question about mark 9? Btw, 3. I answered your question about Mark 9, stating that my sins have been atoned for. Jesus was speaking before his crucifixion to jews. Sorry I guess I'll leave the tale-bearing to you. And I have found peace by conforming to the scriptures LITERALLY in CONTEXT! thx! - 222Oh I could debate with you on this for days. But to what end ?
I have no desire to play scriptural ping pong as the owner of this group likes to put it.
If you want to believe in hell be my guest. Just about anything can be justified by the bible so I don't know it should come as such a surprise that people actually think God is going to torture people in a burning lake of fire for eternity for a finite amount of sins. After all we are just dust and he knows that. - Matt SIngleton If you don't want to argue your lie then stop arguing. But I will call you out on this post when you do. Hell is a fact.
- Matt SIngleton Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." And btw, he wrote this before the greeks ruled!!
- . 111All you have is a parable, not any actual statements by Jesus of eternal torment. And you have an unjust god who tortures people worse than Hitler did forever, for a limited time of sin. How is infinite punishment, for a finite amount of sin even remotely just? I will answer, its not, its just Christians wanting their to be vengeance against people they don;t like.
- Matt SIngletonJesus never once used the word anihilation. I just did a search on Bible gateway. But when I looked for the word Hell. let's see if Jesus says it.....Matthew 5:22
but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a
cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his
brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall
say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.In Context
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Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.In Context
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Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.In Context
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Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the
soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.In Context
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Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.In Context
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Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.In Context
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Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.In Context
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Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and
land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold
more the child of hell than yourselves.In Context
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Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?In Context
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Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:In Context
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Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:In Context
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Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to
enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be
cast into hell fire:In Context
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Luke 10:15
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.In Context
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Luke 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.In Context
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Luke 16:23
and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.In Context
| Full Chapter - Matt SIngleton Now I know Hell is a latin and english word. So it won't find it in the greek or hebrew.. OF course if you want to play that game then God is not in the bible either! Find me "god in greek and hebrew or admit that you are a liar! Or you can just stop believing in God altogether.
- Matt SIngleton btw colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth" if you claim to follow Christ and adhere to the NT you need to stop cussing. we all know what the "a" means.
- Matt SIngleton "WHo says parables cannot have names? Where does scripture say that rule?" Where does the Bible teach that parables are not true? If you want to use hermeneutics, then maybe you should learn hermeneutics and learn how the bible teaches us to handle his word.
- Matt SIngleton " How is infinite punishment, for a finite amount of sin even remotely
just? I will answer, its not, its just Christians wanting their to be
vengeance against people they don;t like." 1. how do you know it is a finite amount of sin? is murder a ...See More - 444 The King James translators took 3 different Greek words (none of which meant a place of eternal punishment) and translated them into the English word hell (which means a place of eternal punishment).
The concept of hell was completely foreign to the Israelites. It was a Greek idea based on Greek philosophy which stated that humans had an immortal soul that never died and either went to a place of eternal bliss, or went to a place of eternal punishment. Edward is right in saying that the word hell does not appear anywhere in the bible.
BTW - King James told the translators that their new translation could not contradict any of the church's teachings. At the time this concept of hell (where people are tortured forever) was a key teaching of the church. That is why they took 3 different Greek and deliberately mistranslated them as hell. If they hadn't then their translation would have been very embarrassing to the church.
Since a truly accurate translation would have no mention of hell...
- Edward J Hassertt Jr. 111I am growing tired of being called a liar. i can take someone telling me, who taught a college level course on hermeneutics during my doctoral studies, that i don;t know about hermeneutics, that is just a typical poly when you cannot answer the questions posed. But calling me a liar is a personal attack that violates good manners and the principles of this group.
- 111We could sin every second of our life and that would still be a finite number of sins, the series ENDS. It is unjust to punish someone infinitely, and UNENDING series of days for that finite number of sins.
- Matt SIngleton "The King James translators took 3 different Greek words (none of which
meant a place of eternal punishment) and translated them into the
English word hell (which means a place of eternal punishment)." this is garbage. First of all you need to provide the documentation for such a claim. But more importantly even if you were right about such a claim you still coudn't provide a reason why William Tyndale illegally translated the bible directly from the greek to use the Word hell properly in the New Testament. As we see in mark 9 and luke 16. Tyndale had nothing to loose as he knew this would get him burned at the stake and he did. The Geneva Bible also translates Mark 9 and luke 16 as referring to hell. All completely outside of British authority. btw,do the British empire support the doctrine of Hell? No!! it is practically illegal! ["BRITISH CHURCH INVESTIGATED FOR WARNING ABOUT HELL (Friday Church News Notes, June 13, 2014, www.wayoflife.org, fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - A Baptist church in Britain was investigated three weeks ago after posting a message on its outdoor sign board stating, “If you think
there is no God, you’d better be right,” above a photograph of burning
flames. After a complaint by an “offended” person, the police opened a
“hate crimes” investigation against Attleborough Baptist Church of
Norfolk, and Pastor John Rose agreed to take down the offending sign. A
police spokesman said the matter “has been recorded as a hate incident”
(“Police investigate Attleborough church ‘hate incident,” Wymondham and
Attleborough Mercury, June 9, 2014).]
Article by David Cloudwayoflife.org - .1111Words mistranslated into Dante's version of hell:
Gehanna - a trash dump where things were completely destroyed by fire. It was not a permanent fire as its a lovely grassy field today.
Hades - a holding place for the dead. There was no torment in Haded proper.
Tarturus - the dwelling place for the evil gods in Greek - used only to refer to Satan's dwelling place.
Sheol- Hebrew for the grave. Dead, gone buried, no consciousness at all according to scripture.
not a single one of these words means anything to do with eternal conscious punishment. That is a myth read into the scriptures by people trying to win converts through fearmongering and hate. They want their to be a place for people they don;t like to suffer forever. But the language of scripture itself does not support this claim.
Learn some Greek and hebrew. Study the concepts in the original languages. English was never inspired. - Matt SIngleton"But calling me a liar is a personal attack that violates good manners and the principles of this group." Just wondering, is it ok when you purposefully tell lies about my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. when you slander Jesus because He is up in heaven and you take his name in vain? Jesus repeatedly talks about hell and you say he is not. Is the principles of this group to go on slandering? Sorry but that is not "good" and you will be held accountable by a higher authority. you were demonstrated in lying. not simply called lying. All you had to do was show me one verse in Greek or Hebrew that mentioned God to prove your point. But you couldn't because your premise is irrational. Hell is the proper translation of those words.
- Matt SIngleton What crap!! learn the bible. it uses those words in that context! How moronic. Tyndale was not affected by dante's inferno. dante taught purgatory. Hell was used 100 years before dante even in the ancient confessions! learn church history. And if you taught hermeneutics you were obviously pathetic at it!
- Matt SIngleton btw, tyndale was the first to translate directly from the Greek to English. not latin!!
- Edward J Hassertt Jr. 111Your childish need to sling personal insults shows you know how weak your argument really is. If your argument were strong you could argue it without the insipid need to call people names.
- Matt SIngleton you don't need to lecture when you run around cussing I have cited 2 passages. you are telling lies.. 111Since you refuse to argue your case like an adult, enjoy your time here! I will go back to adult conversations. Your need to name call and make false accusations is just ridiculous. you are proving my point every second. This is the type of behavior the hell doctrine has created in its followers.
Matt SIngleton I will say that "by your insanity" meant by your insane logic. Not as saying that you are actually insane.Matt SIngleton revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out
without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,
and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and
the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they
have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and
whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. " Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." matthew 25: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" As we can see the condemnation of the sinner is inherently connected with the condemnation of Satan and his angels. As satan will burn forever so will the damned.665: 111 and Matt SIngleton, both of you need to cool it, please, and be respectful. Stick to the topic instead of personal attacks. Thanks.Matt SIngleton I am sorry if anything I said is taken as a personal attack. But this is a smokescreen argument. If you have someone steal your things are you wrong for calling them a thief? I have been framed as attacking by calling out lies. This way people can distract from my point. Claiming that hell is not in Greek or hebrew is non-sensical. Because Hell is not a greek or hebrew word. such a rule would rule out God and jesus since they are words not in greek or hebrew. this is unbiblical since every tongue shall praise God. psalm 117 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. They want to claim that these words can't mean torture or torment in the after life after the passages were quoted and the words were in proper context against that. So basically they don't want people to make these connections. which is why this is breaking down as such.222 No the reason the discussion is breaking down is barque yiu keep accusing everyone who disagrees with you as lying and spreading "antichristian antibiblical propaganda".
Can't really have a meaningful discussion with that type of attitude
222 Matt that would be a complete waste of time. The only points you see are yours.
You can't wake someone who's pretending to be asleep.
- 665 Matt, I realize that you take a different position on this issue than Edward does, but that does not automatically make him a liar. No, that is unacceptable behavior here.
In this group, it is not our job to convince anyone to change their mind about a subject. Share what your view is, and others will share theirs. Anyone with an open mind will explore all sides of an issue, but in the end, there WILL be disagreements and it does not make the other person a liar.
I am only asking that you discuss the topic respectfully. Thanks. - Matt SIngleton 665, we have seen the scriptures. Jesus mentions hell repeatedly. Can you honestly say that he does not?
If he is free to espouse his views I should be free in espousing the truth. Jesus saved my soul from hell. If you slander my Lord and take words out of his mouth, I will call you out.
You may say "I don't think he meant it that way" but if you say he didn't say it all. You are telling a lie.
Believe me this is very offensive to The Lord.
Wednesday, December 17, 2014
A hellish facebook debate. Here I take on annihilationist teachers
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2 comments:
"It took me a quick two second Google search to find God in Greek. It's θεός theós and appears in John 1:1 for instance." You really missed the point of this debate. "God" is in the Bible and taught by christ the same way that Hell is. Look at it again. They say that hell is not in the bible because the english/latin letters for Hell are not spoke by jesus in the greek and hebrew manuscript. You YOURSELF have demonstrated that is dishonest to say that "God is not in the Bible" because the concept is all over the BIble! You naturally understood that God was a translation of theos which proves my point and shows that they were lying. You misquoted me however. I referred to this idea as moronic, I did not call the individual a name. The idea is moronic. Because it destroys our ability to communicate. moron means "Moron is a term once used in psychology to denote mild intellectual disability."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_%28psychology%29 If you loose the ability to communicate they will become slighty mentally disabled. just look at the stories of children raised by wolves. As far as the "A"word. reference to it as a donkey is not offensive. The Bible uses it that way. References to it as a private part is vulgar and therefore obscene. A non-obscene term would be "butt". This person should have known as such but they wanted to make the expression public while representing themselves as a follower of christ, taking his name in vain. Which is why I rebuked him. And for this reason I will take down this particular post of yours.
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