Wednesday, December 17, 2014

A hellish facebook debate. Here I take on annihilationist teachers

     

    •  Here is a debate I had with annihilationists.  People who don't believe in Hell.  They are responding to a Youtube video I posted defending the doctrine of Hell. Names have been replaced by numbers.

      Mark 16:16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
      16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
       Hell is not a doctrine which we have liberty to play around with.



       111Hell is a made up lie.
      16 hrs · Like · 2

    •  222Basically^^^^
      16 hrs · Edited · Like · 2
    • Matt SIngleton If you won't find in the bible you'll find it elsewhere.
    • Matt SIngleton matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
      cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    •  222 The fire is everlasting not the punishment
      16 hrs · Like · 3

    •  333Fear of hell has been used to control people by the leaders of the church, that is true. Now days the leaders are telling every one that there is no hell and so people think that there are no consequences for their missing the mark set by God.

    •  333I think that being eternally separated from God and hell are the same. Death comes with out a power supply from God and hell or separated there is no more power to live on so you die. You knowing that you lost something very good and it was your own fault.
    • Matt SIngleton luke 16:23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,
      that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and co
      ol my tongue; for I
      am tormented in this flame. 25 But
      Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy
      good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted,
      and thou art tormented. 26 And
      beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so
      that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they
      pass to us, that would come from thence.
    • Matt SIngleton btw, Jesus said that.

    •  111BTW its a parable, not a history and BTW the word "hell" does not appear in the greek there.
      10 hrs · Like · 1
    • Matt SIngletonMark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
      into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
      that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45
      And
      if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
      halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire
      that never shall be quenched: 46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And
      if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter
      into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast
      into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    • Matt SIngleton parables don't use names. and luke is historical and factual
    •  222And you think those verses should be taken literally ?

      If so it amazes me you're able to type or see the computer screen or hold the phone
      10 hrs · Like · 1
    • Matt SIngleton by denying hell, you are not stopping it
    • Matt SIngleton what do you think the rich man is doing? sleeping in death????
    • Matt SIngleton Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
      into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
      that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45
      ...See More
    • Matt SIngleton parables don't use names. and luke is historical and factual
    •  222And you think those verses should be taken literally ?

      If so it amazes me you're able to type or see the computer screen or hold the phone
      10 hrs · Like · 1
    • Matt SIngleton by denying hell, you are not stopping it
    • Matt SIngleton what do you think the rich man is doing? sleeping in death????
    • Matt SIngleton Because my sins have been atoned for by the blood of Christ.
    • Matt SIngleton WHAT IS THE RICH MAN DOING??

    •  222It's a parable bro.
    • Matt SIngleton It's the BIBLE bro
    • Matt SIngleton Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
      That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome
      when thou art judged.
    • Matt SIngleton hey bro, hermeneutical liberalism has got to go!

    • 222Were there really 10 virgins ? Did two differnt men really build a house one on sand and the other on a rock ?
    • Matt SIngleton While I don't think those things are impossible. Parables don't name people. stop perverting hermeneutics.
    Matt SIngleton Do you believe that if you call something a parable it gets to become fiction?
  •  222Parables are stories to teach lessons. They are not literal.

    You can't admit that but at the same time you can't can't answer why it is you don't cut your hands off or pluck your own eyes out.


    If you want to go around spreading fear and tales go head.

    Be at peace
  • Matt SIngletonEvery word of the bible is true. "You can't admit that but at the same time you can't can't answer why it is
    you don't cut your hands off or pluck your own eyes out." I am doing two things. 1. I proved that the rich man and lazurus was not parable
    . You fail to rebuke me. 2. you showed flawed logic trying to rebuke my interpretation of luke, when you throw me a question about mark 9? Btw, 3. I answered your question about Mark 9, stating that my sins have been atoned for. Jesus was speaking before his crucifixion to jews. Sorry I guess I'll leave the tale-bearing to you. And I have found peace by conforming to the scriptures LITERALLY in CONTEXT! thx!
  •   222Oh I could debate with you on this for days. But to what end ?

    I have no desire to play scriptural ping pong as the owner of this group likes to put it.


    If you want to believe in hell be my guest. Just about anything can be justified by the bible so I don't know it should come as such a surprise that people actually think God is going to torture people in a burning lake of fire for eternity for a finite amount of sins. After all we are just dust and he knows that.
  • Matt SIngleton If you don't want to argue your lie then stop arguing. But I will call you out on this post when you do. Hell is a fact.

  •  444I personally believe hell (where there is eternal torment) is a myth stolen from Greek philosophy to try to scare people into becoming Christians. God doesn't want His children to fear Him.

    He wants His children to love Him...
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  •  111By affirming it you are not creating something that does not exist!
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  • Matt SIngleton 444 can you prove that hell does not exist?
  • Matt SIngleton 111 what do you know about the afterlife? Why are you smarter than Jesus Christ?
  • Matt SIngleton Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." And btw, he wrote this before the greeks ruled!!

  •  111Why are you? Jesus never once used the word hell.
    9 hrs · Like · 2

  • . 111All you have is a parable, not any actual statements by Jesus of eternal torment. And you have an unjust god who tortures people worse than Hitler did forever, for a limited time of sin. How is infinite punishment, for a finite amount of sin even remotely just? I will answer, its not, its just Christians wanting their to be vengeance against people they don;t like.
    9 hrs · Like · 2

  •  111 I wonder if people who heard Jesus speak were naive enough to imagine that some man actually built his house on sand LMAO - they understood they were parables, why can't the fundies today realize that?

  •  111WHo says parables cannot have names? Where does scripture say that rule?
    8 hrs · Like · 1
  • Matt SIngletonJesus never once used the word anihilation. I just did a search on Bible gateway. But when I looked for the word Hell. let's see if Jesus says it.....Matthew 5:22

    but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a

    cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his
    brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall
    say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 5:29

    And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 5:30

    And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 10:28

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the
    soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
    hell.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 11:23

    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 16:18

    And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 18:9

    And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 23:15

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and
    land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold
    more the child of hell than yourselves.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Matthew 23:33
    Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Mark 9:43

    And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Mark 9:45

    And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Mark 9:47

    And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to
    enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be
    cast into hell fire:In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Luke 10:15

    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Luke 12:5

    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.In Context
    | Full Chapter
    | Other Translations
    Luke 16:23

    and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.In Context
    | Full Chapter

  •  111i take it you don;t know Greek. don;t sling English words around as if it proves anything L:MAO
  • Matt SIngleton Now I know Hell is a latin and english word. So it won't find it in the greek or hebrew.. OF course if you want to play that game then God is not in the bible either! Find me "god in greek and hebrew or admit that you are a liar! Or you can just stop believing in God altogether.
  • Matt SIngleton btw colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth" if you claim to follow Christ and adhere to the NT you need to stop cussing. we all know what the "a" means.
  • Matt SIngleton "WHo says parables cannot have names? Where does scripture say that rule?" Where does the Bible teach that parables are not true? If you want to use hermeneutics, then maybe you should learn hermeneutics and learn how the bible teaches us to handle his word.
  • Matt SIngleton " How is infinite punishment, for a finite amount of sin even remotely
    just? I will answer, its not, its just Christians wanting their to be
    vengeance against people they don;t like." 1. how do you know it is a finite amount of sin? is murder a
    ...See More

  •  444 The King James translators took 3 different Greek words (none of which meant a place of eternal punishment) and translated them into the English word hell (which means a place of eternal punishment).

    The concept of hell was completely foreign to the
    Israelites. It was a Greek idea based on Greek philosophy which stated that humans had an immortal soul that never died and either went to a place of eternal bliss, or went to a place of eternal punishment. Edward is right in saying that the word hell does not appear anywhere in the bible.

    BTW - King James told the translators that their new translation could not contradict any of the church's teachings. At the time this concept of hell (where people are tortured forever) was a key teaching of the church. That is why they took 3 different Greek and deliberately mistranslated them as hell. If they hadn't then their translation would have been very embarrassing to the church.

    Since a truly accurate translation would have no mention of hell...

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  • Edward J Hassertt Jr. 111I am growing tired of being called a liar. i can take someone telling me, who taught a college level course on hermeneutics during my doctoral studies, that i don;t know about hermeneutics, that is just a typical poly when you cannot answer the questions posed. But calling me a liar is a personal attack that violates good manners and the principles of this group.
    5 hrs · Like · 1

  •  111You scripture says all people sin, it does not say what you are claiming it says.
    5 hrs · Like · 1
  •  111We could sin every second of our life and that would still be a finite number of sins, the series ENDS. It is unjust to punish someone infinitely, and UNENDING series of days for that finite number of sins.

    No matter how horrible our sins, they are not eternal in scope. Even the person who kills the body cannot kill the soul. So even murder is not an eternal crime.
    5 hrs · Like · 1

  •  555 hell is fear mongering tool by those who want to control others.
    4 hrs · Like · 1
  • Matt SIngleton "The King James translators took 3 different Greek words (none of which
    meant a place of eternal punishment) and translated them into the
    English word hell (which means a place of eternal punishment)." this is garbage. First of all you need to pro
    vide the documentation for such a claim. But more importantly even if you were right about such a claim you still coudn't provide a reason why William Tyndale illegally translated the bible directly from the greek to use the Word hell properly in the New Testament. As we see in mark 9 and luke 16. Tyndale had nothing to loose as he knew this would get him burned at the stake and he did. The Geneva Bible also translates Mark 9 and luke 16 as referring to hell. All completely outside of British authority. btw,do the British empire support the doctrine of Hell? No!! it is practically illegal! ["BRITISH CHURCH INVESTIGATED FOR WARNING ABOUT HELL (Friday Church News Notes, June 13, 2014, www.wayoflife.org, fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - A Baptist church in Britain was investigated three weeks ago after posting a message on its outdoor sign board stating, “If you think
    there is no God, you’d better be right,” above a photograph of burning
    flames. After a complaint by an “offended” person, the police opened a
    “hate crimes” investigation against Attleborough Baptist Church of
    Norfolk, and Pastor John Rose agreed to take down the offending sign. A
    police spokesman said the matter “has been recorded as a hate incident”
    (“Police investigate Attleborough church ‘hate incident,” Wymondham and
    Attleborough Mercury, June 9, 2014).]


    Article by David Cloud
    wayoflife.org

  • . 111All of the translators of the middle ages had the theology of their history behind their translations. They did not translate in a vacuum.
  • .1111Words mistranslated into Dante's version of hell:

    Gehanna - a trash dump where things were completely destroyed by fire. It was not a permanent fire as its a lovely grassy field today.


    Hades - a holding place for the dead. There was no torment in Haded proper.

    Tarturus - the dwelling place for the evil gods in Greek - used only to refer to Satan's dwelling place.

    Sheol- Hebrew for the grave. Dead, gone buried, no consciousness at all according to scripture.

    not a single one of these words means anything to do with eternal conscious punishment. That is a myth read into the scriptures by people trying to win converts through fearmongering and hate. They want their to be a place for people they don;t like to suffer forever. But the language of scripture itself does not support this claim.

    Learn some Greek and hebrew. Study the concepts in the original languages. English was never inspired.
  • Matt SIngleton"But calling me a liar is a personal attack that violates good manners and the principles of this group." Just wondering, is it ok when you purposefully tell lies about my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. when you slander Jesus because He is up in heaven and you take his name in vain? Jesus repeatedly talks about hell and you say he is not. Is the principles of this group to go on slandering? Sorry but that is not "good" and you will be held accountable by a higher authority. you were demonstrated in lying. not simply called lying. All you had to do was show me one verse in Greek or Hebrew that mentioned God to prove your point. But you couldn't because your premise is irrational. Hell is the proper translation of those words.
  • Matt SIngleton What crap!! learn the bible. it uses those words in that context! How moronic. Tyndale was not affected by dante's inferno. dante taught purgatory. Hell was used 100 years before dante even in the ancient confessions! learn church history. And if you taught hermeneutics you were obviously pathetic at it!
  • Matt SIngleton btw, tyndale was the first to translate directly from the Greek to English. not latin!!

  •  111Show me one verse in Greek or Hebrew than mentions hell.
  • Matt SIngleton show me one verse in greek or hebrew that mentions GOd!

  • Edward J Hassertt Jr. 111Your childish need to sling personal insults shows you know how weak your argument really is. If your argument were strong you could argue it without the insipid need to call people names.
  • Matt SIngleton obviously by your insanity you must not believe in God!

  • . 111There are thousands that use Hebrew and Greek words that properly mean the title God. But none of the Greek and Hebrew words mean hell. Its simply not true.
  • Matt SIngleton you don't need to lecture when you run around cussing I have cited 2 passages. you are telling lies.
    . 111Since you refuse to argue your case like an adult, enjoy your time here! I will go back to adult conversations. Your need to name call and make false accusations is just ridiculous. you are proving my point every second. This is the type of behavior the hell doctrine has created in its followers.

    Matt SIngleton I will say that "by your insanity" meant by your insane logic. Not as saying that you are actually insane.
    Matt SIngleton revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out
    without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be
    tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,
    and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and
    the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they
    have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and
    whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. " Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." matthew 25: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
    cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" As we can see the condemnation of the sinner is inherently connected with the condemnation of Satan and his angels. As satan will burn forever so will the damned.
    665: 111 and Matt SIngleton, both of you need to cool it, please, and be respectful. Stick to the topic instead of personal attacks. Thanks.
     Matt SIngleton I am sorry if anything I said is taken as a personal attack. But this is a smokescreen argument. If you have someone steal your things are you wrong for calling them a thief? I have been framed as attacking by calling out lies. This way people can distract from my point. Claiming that hell is not in Greek or hebrew is non-sensical. Because Hell is not a greek or hebrew word. such a rule would rule out God and jesus since they are words not in greek or hebrew. this is unbiblical since every tongue shall praise God. psalm 117 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. They want to claim that these words can't mean torture or torment in the after life after the passages were quoted and the words were in proper context against that. So basically they don't want people to make these connections. which is why this is breaking down as such.
    222 No the reason the discussion is breaking down is barque yiu keep accusing everyone who disagrees with you as lying and spreading "antichristian antibiblical propaganda".

    Can't really have a meaningful discussion with that type of attitude

    Matt SIngleton Still making a smokescreen. Try proving your point.
     222 Matt that would be a complete waste of time. The only points you see are yours.

    You can't wake someone who's pretending to be asleep.
     Matt SIngleton And so my points are unrefuted.

    • .111 I provided evidence from scripture, from the actual Greek and hebrew meanings of the words, and logic. instead of dealing with the evidence you just resorted to name calling. Deal with the evidence i provided.
    • 665 Matt, I realize that you take a different position on this issue than Edward does, but that does not automatically make him a liar. No, that is unacceptable behavior here.

      In this group, it is not our job to convince anyone to change their mind abo
      ut a subject. Share what your view is, and others will share theirs. Anyone with an open mind will explore all sides of an issue, but in the end, there WILL be disagreements and it does not make the other person a liar.

      I am only asking that you discuss the topic respectfully. Thanks.
    • Matt SIngleton 665, we have seen the scriptures. Jesus mentions hell repeatedly. Can you honestly say that he does not?
      If he is free to espouse his views I should be free in espousing the truth. Jesus saved my soul from hell. If you slander my Lord and take words o
      ut of his mouth, I will call you out.
      You may say "I don't think he meant it that way" but if you say he didn't say it all. You are telling a lie.
      Believe me this is very offensive to The Lord.